#OWS, Bismarck, Efficiency, and the American Dream

A free-wheeling discussion about a lot of different things.
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franya @franyafranya

So you mean #OWS better watch out? RT @InjusticeFacts: In the 1940's the US govt locked up 110,000 Japanese Americans in concentration camps

19/11/2011 10:02:38 WIB
Andrew @timeoutcorner

@franyafranya Eh, during the Labour unrest during the early 20th Century, protesters were simply shot en masse. @InjusticeFacts

19/11/2011 10:03:18 WIB
franya @franyafranya

@timeoutcorner True, & too many #ows critics don't realize they owe their pay & benefits to past protesters who were shot and killed!

19/11/2011 10:08:06 WIB
franya @franyafranya

@timeoutcorner We'd have no safety regs, health insurance, unemployment insurance, pensions, housing law, or much of anything w/out protests

19/11/2011 10:09:18 WIB
Andrew @timeoutcorner

@franyafranya All true. Remember, however: Labour/Socalism movements were co-opted. The 'reforms' were pale shadows of the actual demands.

19/11/2011 10:10:28 WIB
franya @franyafranya

@timeoutcorner Yes- but we got enough to survive and keep improving - until around 1980.

19/11/2011 12:16:18 WIB
Andrew @timeoutcorner

@franyafranya The date is debatable. However, yes. USA has been on a downhill slide for decades now.

19/11/2011 12:17:03 WIB
Andrew @timeoutcorner

@franyafranya Truly intelligent people have noted for the entire time that the US needs deep restructuring. Precisely what old Labour wanted

19/11/2011 12:18:10 WIB
franya @franyafranya

@timeoutcorner Yes... They used the communist scare to deflect equity/equality before/after WWII, then the drug war, then Islamic terrorists

19/11/2011 13:13:05 WIB
franya @franyafranya

@timeoutcorner The Anti-Trust Law was just a feeble protest, in the face of the power of the 1%...

19/11/2011 13:13:39 WIB
Andrew @timeoutcorner

@franyafranya Absolutely. Social Security was a joke, as well. So is minimum wage, unemployment insurance, etc, etc, etc.

19/11/2011 13:15:06 WIB
Andrew @timeoutcorner

@franyafranya Really, it was all just fake reform. Just enough of a crumb to keep the masses happy whilst the protesters were shot dead.

19/11/2011 13:15:45 WIB
franya @franyafranya

@timeoutcorner Oh yeah. My grandmother told me about soc.security as a kid; I said "What a ripoff, you only get a fraction what you pay in?"

19/11/2011 13:17:43 WIB
franya @franyafranya

@timeoutcorner Appeasement. At least Bismarck was a bit more generous than that...

19/11/2011 13:18:19 WIB
franya @franyafranya

@timeoutcorner What really made all that ruthless exploitation possible was the American Dream. Best darn propaganda in the world, ever!

19/11/2011 13:19:50 WIB
Andrew @timeoutcorner

@franyafranya Bismarck knew that to build a 'nation' people had to be heavily incentivised with carrots and sticks. USA never learnt.

19/11/2011 13:20:04 WIB
franya @franyafranya

@timeoutcorner He started health insurance in the 1890s, right? And housing regulations. He was not greedy, just iron-fisted...

19/11/2011 13:21:08 WIB
Andrew @timeoutcorner

@franyafranya Yup, the monolithic, Fascistic, racist, xenophobic, consumerist and psychotic notion called the American Dream.

19/11/2011 13:22:19 WIB
franya @franyafranya

@timeoutcorner The only thing comparable to the American Dream, & a bit worse, is the afterlife: you'll get your needs met after you die!

19/11/2011 13:23:21 WIB
franya @franyafranya

@timeoutcorner Unemployment: get half your salary, for a year maybe? Then they reduce it or cut it - depending on the state! All useless!

19/11/2011 13:24:39 WIB
franya @franyafranya

@timeoutcorner The US never had a national department of housing, or real federal housing law. (HUD is not it, and what it was, was ruined.)

19/11/2011 13:25:18 WIB
Andrew @timeoutcorner

@franyafranya Disagree. American Dream is a dog-eat-dog notion. At least the afterlife requires some effort into being 'sensitive'. IMO. :)

19/11/2011 13:25:47 WIB
franya @franyafranya

@timeoutcorner I genuinely wonder if it was a bad idea to unite all these states... it's just too damn big to insure fairness & equality.

19/11/2011 13:26:10 WIB
franya @franyafranya

@timeoutcorner Both of them keep people in line - oh sure, dog eat dog against each other, but not against the authority - state/church.

19/11/2011 13:27:14 WIB
Andrew @timeoutcorner

@franyafranya I would say yes, it was a terrible idea. The USA should have stayed split in the 1860s. Would have been better, IMO.

19/11/2011 13:28:38 WIB
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